Friday, February 6, 2015

Single planet pi

I am reevaluating single planet PI. 

For the record, I don't like single planet PI.  It is wasteful of CPU and powergrid; either by running 2 extractor control units, or by running additional storage and swapping ECU between them.  It has also historically been a profit destroyer, that is it used to consume more ISK than it created. That is, previously you could sell the mats for more than the final product. presents some alternatives.

All of the above said, what single planet PI is good for is no fuss manufacture of P2 or P3 items.  Also, at the moment at least, conventional knowledge that single planet PI destroys value may be wrong.

I have created a page on my PI spreadsheet for single planet PI.

My spreadsheets are provided as is, where is.  Please note that this page is still considered 'draft' and may have errors.  But it has planet types, and what can be extracted and manufactured on a single planet.  As with most of my spreadsheets, it is based around 4% PI tax (being what a Foo corp charges by default).

Column A lists planet types and what can be made on your typical planet without importing. Column C lists the average sell prices across 4 trade hubs.  Columns D and E refer to the value made or destroyed by turning your items into the relevant P2 instead of selling parts.

For example a Barren planet Biocells manufacture on that screenshot (late January 2015) show that not only are the best 'average sell', but also have the best earnings over the component parts, stating that despite my reservations, maybe some forms of single planet PI may be profitable.    What is most profitable to make in the future will change.

Polytextiles are still truly aweful.  If you need polytextiles for other items, consider importing them and let someone else destroy their own ISK.

2 Extractor control heads still are very expensive (Power and CPU) to run.  I still don't like it, but can see value some pilots who are paying high import/output taxes, or who simply don't want to be in system or fiddle with their PI much.

Tuesday, February 3, 2015

Changing PI prices

I am a moderately happy PI farmer.

I have been sitting on stacks of PI scattered around highsec stations as various wormholes allow.  This is generally not something I would consider smart, but events have favoured me.

The following graphs PI prices over the last 3 months, taken from

Industrial Fibers

Broadcast Node

High-tech Transimtters

Many PI products are showing a roughly 20% price increase since mid to late December.

I can think of 2 contributing factors to the upward pricing that occurred at this time: the jump (freighter) nerf limiting goods from nullsec; and the change to how google docs based price importing works breaking many spreadsheets.

I am somewhat pleasantly surprised as I expected  the lower costs in highsec with player owned customs offices enabling lower PI costs in highsec to counter this, but the graphs above (derived from prices in game) reflect reality rather than expectations.

Sunday, February 1, 2015

Techical update on Google docs & Eve Central

Google docs and the Eve central API for data has not been playing nicely.

I wrote up my implementation of a solution based on Steve Ronuken's google script fix, that works moderately well.

The problem I had is that Google was caching data for far too long, and I missed some price changing trends.

The solution is to use a ?cachebuster=<value> parameter when you want a new call.

From the Eve Central API, apparently we are allowed to pull the same data every 5 minutes.  (!topic/eve-central/b5FjssiqFIQ ).

For my purposes, I don't care about completely current pricing, and price refreshing makes my spreadsheet unusable for about 30 seconds while it happens.  My current solution is to pass the day of the month as the cachebuster parameter, that is I request different data once per 24 hours.

I will be keeping a bit more of a closer eye on this as PI prices have moved around a bit over the last few weeks (post scheduled for Tuesday my time).

Thursday, January 8, 2015

Packaged vs Unpackaged volumes

This is just a minor post about some spreadsheets about space work I have been doing in Eve, primarily regarding volume. If you are not involved in spreadsheets in space (either as spreadsheets or applications), please move along as there will be nothing to see.

In Eve, it is possible to have a 'packed' volume different to the 'unpacked' volume.  For most items these are the same.  For ships and containers at least, they are different.

After perusing the Eve static data, web searching, and finally asking Steve Ronuken, it appears that while the unpacked volumes are available in the static data, there is no available source of packed volumes apart from the Eve software itself.

There is a very old forum post with partially incorrect values.

So I have created a new google doc to share with my investigation :

This contains 4 tabs:
  • Volumes by type id and type name for containers.  It appears that there is some groupings according to container size but even then there are exceptions
  • Volumes by group id and group name for ships.  It appears that there are groupings according to ship class (frigate through super capital). 
  • MySQL compatible sql to create tables with this data and then join it back to the eve static data
  • Attributions
It is entirely possible that I have gotten items incorrect, and/or missed classes of items.  Eventually this data will become stale.

Regardless, I am hauling to null (not always personally), and this has attached a cost to it, I want to know if it is worth hauling completed items or hauling component parts.  Outside highsec, each trip's risk and cost are based on number of trips more than what is inside a hauler.   Of course, one day, one of our haulers will make someone a glorious killmail.

Monday, December 29, 2014

PI Spreadsheet working again

I use a google doc's spreadsheet for tracking PI prices, and what I should or should not be making.

My biggest personal need is to set prices for our in-wormhole PI buying program.

Google Docs spreadsheets have been upgraded lately, and importxml, which is the basis of how I have been pulling prices from eve-central is broken.  So my old PI spreadsheet, as well as the one Wyke Mossari are now both also broken.

However Steve Ronuken came to the rescue with some google docs scripts.  I have tweaked them to my desires and now have my new version.

Not only can I import data from Eve Central again, it is much faster, and I can now combine my buy and sell spreadsheets.

The spreadsheet is at

You are welcome to make your own copy and tweak.

Main Tab

Main Tab

The first 'Main' tab lists the PI products, what level they are, and max buy/min sell prices from Eve Central for several systems. It also includes a few other items for POS fuel and WH gas clouds.

Columns P and Q have the average prices from Jita, Amarr, Dodixie and Hek.

If you make your own copy, you can change the system names in row 2 and everything else will work.

Make Import Tab

Make Import Tab

This tab assumes you have one PI item being manufactured, on planet and you are looking for something to pair it with.  The Earnings% column is a quick guide, colour coded.  Red is a loss; white, yellow, green in that order show what is worth making.  If you are color blind you are welcome to just use % values (or make a copy and colour it to your liking)

All values try to take into account the effects of import and export taxes, assuming you are making the value of 'Manufacture 1' on planet.

The tax rate by default is 4%, which is the standard in Foo corps.

Manufacture Tab

This tab assumes you have a pure factory planet, importing everything.  This also uses the tax rate from the Make Import Tab.

SelectedTypes Tab

This contains the Eve TypeId's, item names and a grouping code.  The TypeId's can be determined from various sources.

If you make a copy of the spreadsheet and change a TypeId then it will be reflected on the main tab.  At the moment the Items are hard coded.

If you have a specific item you want to find the type id, look for it's price on eve-central.  Eg search for Tritanium on there, and you will get as the URL.  This URL tells you that the typeid for Tritanium is 34

Various websites contain the static data from eve, including

Buying Tab

This tab is what I use to run my wormhole buying program.  It will occasionally (often?) be filtered to the products that I have most recently purchased from someone.

Credits and License tab

This tab is where I have various credits to where I have used other people's work.

Caveat Emptor

I have taken some care, but take no responsibility for any ISK you may earn or lose as a result of using this spreadsheet

PS. Steve has also set up his own version of the PI manufacture calculator at

PPS.  To see the scripts used by my spreadsheet above, make a copy of the google doc spreadsheet, and  use Tools -> Script Editor.

Monday, December 22, 2014

Creating a null trade hub

I have been quieter than normal the last little while, and actually trying to find time to play the game rather than write up what is working (or not).  I also have been playing with eve static data.

My current project is out in null space.  Yes, on some of my pilots, I have joined a null renter corp.

I still don't 'rat' much.  I thing I have spent 10 hours ratting in the last month.  I have taken part in a structure grind where the local renters (and not the so called landlords) were wanting to reclaim a station to provide an easier trade route back from Razor.  (Long story for another day maybe).

I had great plans of being a null manufacturer, with the bounties of excessive moon goo and ore.  These were the dreams of the uninformed idealist.

One of the things I have noticed out in my area of Cobalt Edge, is that we do not have a functional market.  Sure there are the occasional jump freighter runs for the organised, but these are done far too much on a trust everyone basis. is from the same alliance. 

You can trust some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time, but I don't trust all of the people all of the time.

I know wormholes.  I have some logistics ability.  I have some coding ability.  Time to make a trade hub.

My plan is to stock my null station with stuff so that pilots can equip a ship with something.  Tech 2, best named Meta, occasionally faction stuff.  At the moment largely ammunition and modules but the occasional ship.

So for me, most of my logistics has been via wormholes and DST's.  The furthest that I have travelled to find a usable null based wormhole is 7 jumps, and usually it is only 2-3.  At the moment, usable means no more than 2 intermediate wormholes, no more than 2 lowsec systems.  This limitation is based on the number of 'eyes' I am willing to commit to wormholes and gates.

I am still skittish with my DST, and wait probably too long after seeing someone on a gate.  The DST is probably strong enough to shake off most pursuit.  Maybe.  Either that or I will just keep being skittish.  Jump drive calibration 5 is currently being trained on a couple of pilots, with the eventual plan to make 2 jumps, swap ship between pilots, jump 2 more and swap back again.  The non-jumping pilot would use a mix of jump clones, interceptors and T3 cloaky interdiction nullified ships.

I have my list of what I would like to sell; just over 1800 item types.  I currently have 400 slots in null and sigh a little. I also want to have room for buy orders too.  So I am also training more pilots for more trading, planning to get around 1000 slots.  This still wont be enough for my 'want to trade list'.

The things I know :
  • Hauling is possible but it takes time, ammunition is pretty easy.  
  • T1 hulls can be made in null, T2 hulls are a lot harder as there is very little local moon goo for sale, and even then it is only select moons.
  • Most trading and hauling currently happens via a social networks.
  • I am going to have to trim hard on what I am selling at least in the short term
  • Our renters are cashed up but have poor access to markets.

Based on this, I have been hauling stuff that is not currently being traded and I think will sell, and then listing it at a significant margin.

My pricing model is based on a convenience store out the middle of nowhere rather than next door to a major city supermarket.  I am trying to provide stuff to the buyers that want it now, rather than buyers that want to be organised.  Later when I get more trade orders and better logistics,

My market solution is still way too manual.  I looked at Eve Mentat and can't drive it they way I want.

At the moment my market selection method consist of 3 windows: One eve window in my null system with the trade filter set to 'show only available' for 'station'; one eve window in a trade hub, and one browser window on either eve central or this spreadsheet .The spreadsheet is meant to show my 1800 items list, and the prices in Jita, Amarr and my region of space.  It is slow and often refuses to load all data (hence the eve central fallback).

I don't mind being undercut.  At the moment that means most likely ignoring the item, but 'soon' it will mean pulling the item and listing another one instead.  I have no idea on when 'soon' will be.

Saturday, December 13, 2014

Why ask CSM candidates for short answers?

Some of the CSM have troubles providing short answers in my CSM 10 candidate questions.  Some have written posts about how TLDR is a hard (edit) thing.  Others shoved multiple answers in with various pretence about how it was only one answer.  (Do this too badly and Foo will edit your answers to fit)

I personally am a long form reader, I like reading the intricacies and banter that goes back and forward.

Last year I listed to many many hours of podcasts, read many blog and CSM forum posts.  The problem is that I am going to be approaching burnout from all the reading by the time the CSM elections are done, and I will read much more than most.

Most eve players (your potential voters) will not.

Some candidates have rusted on voters.  These voters follow suggestions of their leadership group, whether it be CEO, alliance leadership or their favourite bloggers.

Some voters will vote for someone regardless of what is written, and make up their own mind.  These people will read your long form answers, listen to podcasts and come up with their reasoned responses.

Most potential voters find the whole voting process a little irrelevant and/or too much bother.  I am trying to create something for those who are deciding whether to vote, and to try to move some of them into either of the above 2 voting groups, preferably the group that makes up it's own mind.

The CSM 9 voter turnout was shocking. I feel that this represents a fall in engagement in Eve as a game for the longer term.  I feel we got a pro-active CSM that did lots of good work.  No they didn't get everything they wanted, nor do I think they should.   I still think we have a better Eve experience because of the CSM. 

I want more players engaged in Eve, not just the ad-hoc pew pew, but to feel they can shape the game into the future.  I feel that the CSM is amongst our best ways to shape this from a design perspective.  The CSM are not game designers, but they are our representatives as involved key stakeholders.

Those that just seek a simple answer from their leadership group will already be well covered.

Those that seek long form answers will similarly be well covered: Eve forums, a wealth of in depth interviews, blogs, podcasts will all let the well informed be even better informed.

I tried to make questions that appeal to the TLDR audience, and give them a way to get more information should they want it about a candidate.  As it is, 2000 words of CSM answers and counting, becoming probably 5000 words before the season ends, will be too much for many of these players to read.

I know that this blog, by itself, won't reach out to many.  But hopefully a short form set of answers, when linked to by a few that do care, may appeal to those that would not otherwise vote.