Gevlon is a sometimes abrasive, 'greed is good' pilot who runs http://greedygoblin.blogspot.com.au/.
Noir is a mercenary group and run http://noirmercs.com. They also have a standard of behaviour published at http://noirmercs.com/showthread.php?39645-So-You-Want-To-Join-Noir-Academy
I tried to understand the Gevlon vs Noir issue. There are allegations made against Noir, and counter allegations made against Gevlon.
My initial position is from Hanlon's Razor : "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.". I am aware of my bias. I became more biased by reading Noir's responses.
My understanding is :
- Gevlon has in the past hired Noir for work.
- Goons have in the past hired Noir for work.
- Gevlon was involved in the founding of Lemmings
- Gevlon moved to arms length from Lemmings but still hired them http://greedygoblin.blogspot.com.au/2014/03/lemmings-grown-up.htm
- Mysterious pilot hired Noir
- Noir allies to goons as a wardec defender.
- Gevlon hired Noir to attack suspect Goons.
- Gevlon hired Lemmings to attack suspect Goons.
- Noir tell mysterious pilot about Gevlon's contract.
- Noir did not inform Gevlon about allying to Goons
- Gevlon discovered Noir were were allied to Goons and were shooting Lemmings.
- Edit: Noir shoot and pod Gevlon several times
- Gevlon gives tears http://greedygoblin.blogspot.com.au/2014/04/money-talks.html .
- Noir claims to be the victim. http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/24clbf/noirs_counterstate_to_gevlon/ . Reddit comments defend Gevlon, to the horror of many of Gevlon's new found defenders. They defend Gevlon because Noir keeps shooting themselves in the foot.
- Gevlon decides that he should pay for some of the kills that were actually harming goons.
- Noir contacts Gevlon and only manages to fire him up even more.
- Gevlon gets mad, revokes his offer of payment http://greedygoblin.blogspot.hu/2014/05/its-not-about-money-its-about-sending.html
For those that think Noir are in the right, I have a question for you.Background: You want to hire a Merc corp. You have heard that a Merc corp is tricky with contracts, and are capable of trying to play both sides. This Merc corp see nothing wrong with taking your ISK then allying with your enemies.
Q: Would you hire this Merc corp to fight for you? Would you want your CEO to hire this Merc corp to work for you?
Edit: Q: After you decide that the above is OK and you will still hire them; how about them shooting you multiple times?
For those that think Gevlon is in the right, I have a questions for you.Background: Gevlon is trying to bring about a new way of doing business in Eve. He breaks social rules all the time. He expects us to be careful in our dealings and where 'bad things' happen, believes it is our fault. The contract Gevlon had was not explicit, and was relying on a social understanding and expectation.
Q: Why should Gevlon be protected by the social contracts that he disdains so much?
Q: Why should someone who makes a unilateral offer to pay ISK, and then renege on that offer within 24 hours be trusted?
Noir's own statements:
- There was no requirement that we could ONLY shoot the CFC that weekend, only that we DID shoot the CFC that weekend.
- If you have a side or plan to be fighting in the area you're hiring us in, you should tell us and get standings set between us the involved parties so we can work together and not blow each other up.
That's pretty common sense.
If I am paying mercs to shoot my enemy, and those mercs have a contract to also shoot the enemy of my enemy, the mercs should let me know. That's pretty common sense.
If you hire Noir, make sure that you include a clause stating no current conflict of interest, and require notification if a conflict of interest arises. Either that, or hire someone else.
I understand Gevlon not wanting to pay those he accuses of scamming.
Alekseyev is the public face of Noir. After reading http://www.reddit.com/user/Alekseyev and ... participating in the debate, I humbly suggest that Noir get a new public face.
This is a propaganda post. See bias for what it is, then make your own conclusion.
My unsolicited advice for Gevlon who I know reads this blogOnly an idiot would fight a war on two fronts. Only the heir to the throne of the Kingdom of Idiots would fight a war on twelve fronts. (source). In other words, stop being so damned prickly. You could neutralise Noir with diplomacy and propaganda, leaving you free to fight your earlier targets.
Pay for those pods you offered to pay for. No one forced you to make that offer. Consider it penance for the stupidity of making the offer. If you don't it will come back to haunt you as you gain a reputation as someone who does not do what they say they will.
My advice for Noir who probably have no idea who Foo is.Decide what corp you want to be.
If you want to be a tear harvesting corp, carry on. You are doing well enough.
If you want to be scammers, you need to appear more sincere. You could have gotten a lot of isk if you had tried to understand and empathise with Gevlon a bit better with your second contacting pilot. Work from your common interests and get Gevlon to pay for those.
If you want to be honourable:
- Drop the innocent act. It is not fooling enough pilots
- Read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflict_of_interest. Pretend to understand the concept.
- Get a new CEO. I still don't know if Alex is malicious or stupid; either way if you want to be an honourable merc corp, get rid of Alex.
I expect (and possibly even hope) this post to be troll bait. Moderation rules will be applied to this post according to the following.
- Comment with at least a pseudonym. Dealing with 3 different people all claiming the same name of 'anonymous' gets tiring quickly. Comments made by 'anonymous' are likely to be deleted. Comments made by variations on anonymous are welcome.
- I am hoping for propaganda from both sides.
- Posts containing NSFW language will be deleted.
- Posts that are simply one line attacks will be deleted.
- Any posts that I delete for the above rules will remain as a deleted post. That is, you will see that I have deleted something, but I will attempt to salvage acceptable text out of it.
Edit:I went reading killboards. Each of these kills is Noir on Gevlon. Sometimes with goons, sometimes solo. If I was paying a merc and they shot me multiple times, I would be ticked, and not pay either.
Once might be a mistake. This is not. I find it hard to believe that Gevlon understated the betrayal but it appears he did.