Tuesday, 27 May 2014

Out of corp wormhole PI storage - the face palm moment

As a rule, I prefer to do my own PI with pilots in one of our wormhole corporations.  There are however times and pilots that this is not practicable.  My highsec freighter pilot for example is in an NPC corp.  Some corp members are in various lowsec and nullsec groups, and use PI to fund their ship repacements.

The problem with doing PI with an out of corp pilots is storage.  Whether you are doing manufacture PI and need a stockpile of low end mats, or simply don't want to use the wormhole with partially empty ships every single run, you want some space.

Jet canning PI from an Epithal is painful, as you can only jetcan from your standard hold, and not from your PI hold.  While you can add additional PI to your initial jetcan, an epithal holds more than a single jetcan and you will need to wait a few minutes to create a second.

My solution to the Jetcan issue had been swapping ships between 2 Eve pilots, and emptying the contents directly into the POS with the in corp pilot.  It works but takes a few clicks and sufficient attention to ensure you are boarding the right ship.  Boarding the same ship you just ejected from is a bit embarrassing even when no one else is watching.

Enter the Enormous Freight Container (EFC?).  We had seen a few launched in our wormholes on occasions; cheap storage with zero security.  We have treated them as target practice, but wondered how they could be launched.  After all, they are 250,000m3 unpacked and nothing that fits in our C1 can hold that much to unpack.

They are however only 2,500m3 when packed, and ... can simply be launched for self from any t1 industrial while still packed.  Facepalm.  I have been playing this game for long enough to no longer be considered a green novice, yet I simply did not think to attempt this until recently.

EFC's can be launched for self while still packed.  It takes a couple of minutes between launches because you still have the jetcan delay, but that is trivial.  They also can be launched inside of your POS forcefield, so are generally secure from neutrals.  Out of corp pilots can be given a POS forcefield password.

Occasionally (but not always), I need to set my 'safety' to yellow to access the EFC.  Why?  Not sure, it feels like a UI bug, but I don't really care enough to raise a support ticket with such an easy work around.

I still would not leave expensive stuff in an EFC for any duration longer than logging over between pilots on an account.  I believe that a little trust goes a long way, and there is no point in leaving temptation for corp members when our POS is set up for 'secure' storage.

Containers launched in and around POS do not seem to despawn.  We have a couple of smaller containers that have been around one of our POS for a very long time.

Out of interest, I tried bumping an EFC, and could not manage to move it, even with an Orca.  They might be bump-able, but I didn't have much success.

I don't think I am ever going to be able to re-pack them but they are cheap enough (500k at trade hubs) not to worry about.

The other advantage for the single player (or close knit first life corp) is that the EFC's don't require CPU.  Theory says that EFC's will be available even after a POS is re-inforced.  I will have to try it out on SISI (the test Eve server) at some stage, as I don't feel any huge desire to deliberately attract unwanted attention by re-inforcing my own POS on 'live'.

So, EFC's are simply easier than jetcanning or ship swapping, with far more volume than any individual industrial can hold.  I should have set them up a long time ago.


  1. You could also use Giant Secure Containers. They have a lesser capacity than EFCs, but the owner can secure them through a Password. So that may be a solution for the small but shiny stuff.
    Alternatively one could launch a Mobile Depot (not inside a Forcefield), to have a secure storage that even has a reinforce timer if it gets shot at.

  2. @anon above. Agreed,and we have used all the above. But opening sufficient gsc for a an epi 3/4 full was also painfull.

    Also please include a pseudonym other than anonymous.

  3. Cans will last one month before despawning. The respawn clock is reset on access.. IE drop or pickup anything to or from an anchored can and you 30 more days. Also can are not tied to the POS and are accessible after reinforced.

    Under threat of war, immediately move ALL ammo, charges, boosters, hookers and Quafe to GSCs!!!

    We have used GSC's for guests/alts. They launch them for self, set a PW and as long as they use it at least once a month, they are all good. When I first joined HELPeR, waiting out my roles timer, I had a GSC inside the FF and a Mobile Depot outside at warp range and I was set.

    You cannot bump cans... however, I have often gone right through them and once parked a Rifter inside one... lol. Oh and if you have a stack of packaged cans and you anchor the stack, they will all anchor in a grid around your ship, and some will anchor 2 and 3 in the exact same location... it's weird.

    I've never used an Epithal... I use a Prowler for moving P1 & P2 prods about and picking up my finals, currently Robos and Supercomputers, for storage at the POS and for haul out for sale.

    Personally I'd like to see PHAs have lower grid costs, as they are smaller in capacity, and be PW secured. Then you could have a PHA for members up to some reasonable number. And I'd like to see Mobile Depots anchorable inside the POS for guests and OOC alts.

  4. "Jet canning PI from an Epithal is painful, as you can only jetcan from your standard hold, and not from your PI hold. While you can add additional PI to your initial jetcan, an epithal holds more than a single jetcan and you will need to wait a few minutes to create a second."

    Easy solution: Jetcan 1 item of PI, open can, drag'n'drop rest of PI stack, only loot big stack with freighter, leave the 1 item. The can will stay in space for 2 hours and you can constantly refill it.

  5. @anon An epithal carries sufficient for 2 jet cans; yes, I have done this too. Please post with a pseudonym.

    @Tur, We have evidence that cans on a POS grid last longer than 1 month even if it is not opened

  6. The yellow safety isn't an UI bug. You are "stealing" as you aren't the owner of the can. I don't know if ownership is personal or corp-related, but you mentioned using NPC corp pilots.

  7. @Gevlon

    If any given pilot had to be yellow, to access the same container in a WH: no bug.
    If any given pilot could always be green , to access the same container in a WH: no bug.

    It is that sometimes the same pilot must be yellow safety; other times the same pilot may be green safety on the same container that makes it a bug.

    The container is in a wormhole so red/yellow/green is less relevant anyway.

  8. In my corp we use the EFC to exchange items or temporary location inside the POS, we call it the Loot Can. I agree you need certain level of trust with your colleagues, but I think it's better to find out with simple things if you can trust them or not, before the big theft can happen. My belief is most thieves will steal anything with some value as soon they have the chance. So having these kind of "honey pots" are useful as "early alarms". Also, I often take screenshots (with versioning) with the content of my hangars and containers with two purposes: 1) having an inventory and avoid buying stuff in Jita I may already, so kinda "assets management" 2) take evidence my wealth doesn't have random dwindles. I have to say main reason is #1.

    In the other hand, I don't remember exactly the mechanics, but I think you can eject and use the container without anchoring, and if you don't do it, it will disappear after certain time. I made that mistake once. So always double check the container is anchored.


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