Saturday, 9 January 2016

Should you set up in a wormhole to do P4 planetary interaction?

I recently received an evemail.

Hi there.
I've been following your blog with interest for the last few weeks and was wondering if I could ask for some feedback on a PI setup?
I'm considering setting up 4 toons doing PI in a wormhole, hopefully producing p4 products. 
I know this is going to set me back anything from 500m to 1b in startup costs, but I'd like to know if you think it's a feasible option for me to look into?

If you would like to try out wormhole PI, you could join one of our wormholes. They are setup and ready to go.

If you want to create your own wormhole setup, the following points are worth considering.

Getting a suitable wormhole

It can cost 500m to buy an entrance to suitable empty wormhole. is a good place to look. looks interesting but I have never used their services.

Make sure it has sufficient planets of the correct kind to support your PI, or to make sure you have the ability to import your local shortages. can show what any given wormhole can produce,

If you want to find a suitable wormhole (it will take you quite a while), find any wormhole with a static that is suitable, and learn how to roll wormholes ( is a possible starting point.    Rolling wormholes is a topic all on it's own)

Grinding out your customs offices

I have both bought and destroyed existing customs offices.  Buying is faster and potentially cheaper (especially if you use the replacement tanked afk laser myrmidon). However buying means that you need to give 'them' an entrance to your wormhole, something that I am loath to do if they have managed to lose it.

Each customs office you grind out will require : 24M damage done, with a 500 hps peak shield regeneration.  A couple of replacement tanked afk laser myrmidon can do it (empty clone, come back the following day with a 50% chance of a dead poco, 50% chance of brand new shiny clones back in empire space).

My budget of a customs office replacement is 100M/customs office (gantry plus upgrade mats).  The spot price is currently closer to 120M/customs office.

Ongoing costs.  

If you are going to do PI for 4 pilots, you will need a lot of storage.  You can go cheap and use a system's other customs offices, but it will be painful to manage.

An orca isnt big enough.  A freighter does not have a cloak.  This means you need to think about a POS.

A small POS (roughly 250m setup, 125m/month for fuel) is an invitation for casual bored passers by to take potshots.

A medium POS (roughly 500m setup, 250m/month for fuel) will keep away casual passers buy, but those looking for a rumble can take out your pos.  Have a method to easily extract your value (possibly freighter, or just keeping your POS 'lean')

A large POS (roughly 1B setup, 500m/month for fuel) in a low class wormhole will keep all but the most dedicated away.

Please note: Citadels are coming, and will replace all the above.  My crystal ball is cloudy, but my gut feel says a medium citadel will have roughly the costs of a large POS (though possibly less fuel ... maybe).

Do you want to take time off the game?  Your POS will still consume fuel, or be blown up if it runs out.

Supporting P4 PI with 4 pilots.

If you build from scratch, with 4 pilots, it will be difficult to make enough raw material to support a single 'hard' P4 factory (eg integrity response drones).  (Yes, P4 factory, not planet of P4 factories).

It might be more feasible to make supply an 'easy' P4 like sterile conduits (requiring 2xP3 and 1xP1).

As an alternative, especially for P3 and P4, consider 'Make 2, Import 1'.  It takes Gel-Matrix Biopaste (very profitable), Hazmat Detection Systems (marginally profitable) and Planetary Vehicles (incredibly loss making).  Consider making the profitable parts, and importing the rest.

The same applies to most levels.

Possibly you could look at the component costs on manufacture tab of my PI spreadsheet.

Why P4?

No PI is used directly by capsuleers shooting each other, red crosses or giant rocks.  It is used by other industrialists.  These industrialists will often want to move rather than make stuff where it is. P3 has better ISK/m3 than P4.


The setup costs of a wormhole PI exceeds the costs of just the customs office.

1K+ DPS recommended for AFK POCO bashing.  3K+ DPS recommended for at keyboard bashing. without more than 500DPS, you cant beat the passive tank.

POS fuel costs (at least 250m month, 500m/month recommended - will change come citadels but I dont know what way yet).

100-120m per customs office.

I hope this helps


[Myrmidon, replacement tanked afk laser]

Drone Damage Amplifier I
Drone Damage Amplifier I
Drone Damage Amplifier I
Drone Damage Amplifier I
Heat Sink I
Heat Sink I

Cap Recharger I
Medium Shield Extender I
Medium Shield Extender I
Medium Shield Extender I
Medium Shield Extender I

Heavy Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Multifrequency M
Heavy Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Multifrequency M
Heavy Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Multifrequency M
Heavy Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Multifrequency M
Heavy Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Multifrequency M

Medium Energy Burst Aerator I
[Empty Rig slot]
Medium Energy Collision Accelerator I

Ogre I x4

Cost 60m, most of that in the hull.  Unless you are doing your last afk bash, it is worth insuring.  An all 5's pilot will pull (according to Pyfa) 671 DPS.  Approach your poco and stay entirely stationary and you may do a litte more with your guns.  A pair of these are sufficient with 1/2 way decent skills.

The shield tank is there only because you may actually be at keyboard if (when?) a gank happens.   So far, I have about a 60% chance of completing an afk poco bash and waking up the following morning with the ship intact.  (These days, I have other, more intensive methods - but the afk bash is how I first started).  Tech 1 laser ammo does not need to be reloaded nor do drones.

Any laser or drone boat can fulfil this role, chose one according to your skills.  (If you are using cruisers or below, you may wish to 'phone a friend/bring an alt')


  1. I wouldn't go over P2 in a WH, because it involves warping between POCOs with valuable cargo, something worth camping with a stealthed dictor and catching you. In case of P2, the ship warping to the POCO is empty and worthless to catch.

  2. Well if the guy's still reading...the first and the main question can be answered only by himself - WHY should he do P4 in a wormhole. If the answer is (we're living in C3, C4 or C6 with no HS statics or direct highsec dynamic wh's once or twice per month) or (I want to try it out just for interest) then go for it. I mean it's the only reasons why P4 would be produced inside the wormhole - logistics reasons or player interest.

    In every other case P2 has the best ratio of Isk/hr-logistics-risks-clicking. 5-5 Pi toon pulls about 105000 m3 of P2 worth about 670 million isk per month for about 1.5 hour of total monthly maintanance. If you set up in a goldmine system (aka 4 lava planets+) and sell your products via Jita trading alt (update orders once per 2-3 days, no hussle) you'll pull up to 1 billion from a pi alt.

    If you're focused and interested in P4 than higsec and factory planets are the way to go. You can pull up to 2bil from a character who's reproducing P2 to P4 in highsec even after asshole taxes. It'd require a lot of clicking and freighter/orca flying and isk/hr will be 400-450.

    Pashko Morgan from -nano


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